Friday, June 10, 2005

Not That I Am Trying To Stir The Pot, But...

I was, and continue to be, shocked when I see some of the people who read me and blogroll me. I am such a liberal, left-wing feminist (though perhaps I don't show much of that here; I generally try to keep it a little lighter). So it amazes (and pleases) me to see that I have some self-proclaimed right-wing-nuts who read me. And truth be told, I read some of them and I blogroll some of them too. And I consider some of them to be friends.

I think that's the beauty of our country - that we can all co-exist and communicate with each other, even if our beliefs are different and we stand for different things. We can either disagree fairly peacefully, or just avoid the topics that stir the fires within us.

And then I find this site, via And I Wasted All That Birth Control. And it reminds me that there are people out there who think its their views or no views, their religion or no religion, their way or no way. And it sickens me, truly.

As a woman, I am most offended by the sexist views shown on this site, most specifically this brain surgeon's comment: "I'm an old-fashioned woman. Men should take care of women, and if men were taking care of women today, we wouldn't have to vote." This statement of obvious brilliance was made by Kay O'Connor, a Kansas Senate Republican. How are you a female senator with an opinion like that about the status of women? Ugh. And the comments against gays - they maddened me. What is the big deal? If its against your religion and your beliefs, why can't you just not do it? If gays are going to hell, isn't that their problem and won't they be judged by God? Do they need to be judged by these people too, in such a mean, hateful way?

I don't get it. Do you? If you consider yourself to be of the religious right, do you adhere to this kind of thought process? How do you justify being the judge of other's behaviors when that is to be left to God? Or are you more "compassionate" in your views?

Is what has happened to the "religious right" the same thing that has happened to the "liberal left" - that it gets hijacked by a few nuts and that is the only rhetoric that gets out? Do you feel that your religion and political party has been stolen? Or do they represent your views for the most part?

I am truly asking these questions out of curiosity, not out of anger or disdain or anything like that. I value each reader I have and I value your opinions (on both serious subjects and on frivilous ones). Where I live in the liberal Northeast, I don't have any friends who have "right wing" views. I am interested to hear what people have to say, and I hope everyone will be tolerant and courteous of other commenters. And if you are going to be an ass and post something stupid, at least have the guts to not be "anonymous." And I have the right to remove any inappropriate, trolly comments.

40 comments:

InterstellarLass said...

I live in Texas, and most of the state is VERY Republican. I have to say that I don't agree with the 'right-wing'. It seems to me that they espouse hate and intolerance for everything they can't find approved in the Bible. That's not what the Constitution of this country was written from. Just as there is freedom OF religion, there should be freedom FROM religion, and the biases that it brings.

janie q said...

i live in canada and we have become such a complacent country, there is so much immigration, they come with no intention of even trying to adapt to what canada is about, they demand that natural canadians change to meet their needs, if they wanted to live somewhere exactly like their country, why don't they just stay there. we are a country that has lost our identity.

Rik said...

Many of these hard-core right-wingers don't feel that the liberal left want to work for a living. They believe the left is all for welfare and affirmative action . . . which "level the playing field." Capitalism, however, is not about leveling the playing field, it's about kicking your opponent's ass, working hard and getting rewarded for it. Also, many of them believe that while welfare is a good idea, it's being abused, and people are getting rewarded for having 14 children and no job. Can this be good for society? As far as religion goes, i think they believe that we're being attacked, and a natural response is to defend yourself. Some of those quotes, however, were not very nice, i'll agree. In case you were wondering, i consider myself around 55% conservative on social issues, and 75% conservative on economic issues, and 100% conservative on political/military issues.

tommy said...

You see a lot of nonsense from the rightwing nut house types and the looney liberal bunch not because they are the dominant position in either group but because the opposing sides find it much easier to argue with the extreme views than with the more reasonable ones in the mainstream of the groups. If those views were heard based on actual popularity within each group you wouldn't hear them.

Both sides right now are doing everything they can to paint a caricature of the other side. Most of the right wing really isn't all that dominated by religion, just like the left wing isn't really all that dominated by people hoping we lose the war in Iraq. But the opposition does everything it can to frame them that way.

Which leads me to wonder if the quotes you have there were somehow taken out of context along those lines.

trine said...

I just wrote a long post and then lost it. Argh.

It seems the woman senator in question has conveniently forgotten the long and hard years of struggle by the women's movements to get her the vote in the first place...

The quotes on the site sickens me too, and makes me worry A LOT about what is happening to our world. Taken out of context? perhaps. they're pretty bad even so...

Bumbling Bav said...

Well first about that site.... some people have a lot of hate in their bodies and to think that people with that much hate can still have children!

My husband comes from a long line of preachers and such and I have to tell you just from that family alone the judgement is insane. To the point where there is no unsupervised visits for them. And they know to keep their thoughts to themselves when around our children or they are going to end up with a huge fight. And even for that they are always judging us. I have said to them that unless they have something nice to say... then they should not say anything at all.

But then I come across another couple who are wonderful, he is a preacher she is a sahm. Such beautiful people... and for this they alone have helped me get over my dislike for those working in the church.

I guess it is like judging a person because of where they are from, you get some good and you get some bad.

Great topic!

Elle said...

True Blue, baby, all the way!!!

Guppyman said...

You know I'm a right wing nut job.... I will be back later to go into this....

I love a good political debate!

Indigo said...

I'm not a fan of the 'it's my way or the highway'. Glad you mentioned this. I'll write more later, I'm on my way out the door!

warcrygirl said...

I consider myself a conservative Republican (I voted for both Bushes both times) so when I see a "right-wing nutjob" on the web it makes me cringe. Please PLEASE do not assume all of us are like that. Here is where I stand:

I believe live begins at conception. What you choose to do with that life is your business. I choose life.

I believe in God and Jesus. If you don't that's fine with me. Live and let live.

I don't tell anyone what they should and shouldn't do (barring rape or molestation) in the bedroom. I don't presume who will go to Heaven and who won't; that's not for me to decide and quite frankly, to do so is blasphemous (IMHO).

I like a good debate (not argument) so if I engage you in one please don't cut me off with yelling, accusations and rhetoric. I try to do my homework before debating religion or politics; I expect you to do the same. I'm not afraid of my beliefs but until you ask me about them I assume you're not interested in hearing about them.

WHEW! What a first comment! I'm pretty easy-going, really. Thanks for visiting my blog!

warcrygirl said...

Gah! I meant to type "liFe begins at". TToooo mmuucchh ccaaffffiieennee!

Twist of Kate said...

Yikes, that is some heavy stuff Jersey....I just came to say hi from Micheles (not like I wouldn't have come on my own) and here you are all serious...it's FRIDAY! A fun day! :) I'm kidding, I do have my own opinions about such things and I'm willing to bet they are close to yours...but I won't get into them now since you did such a nice job at expressing yourself for both of us! :)

lisa said...

Jersey, I've noticed lately that a lot of the most vitrolic right winger types leading the Republican party soon seem to find themselves in the midst of a gay sex scandal. Personally, it doesn't matter to me, it seems really wierd to spend your career trying to limit the freedom of the men you secretly love at night. But I think their behavior proves my theory that "All hate is self hate".

doris said...

Hello!

I've come over from Michele's to say "Hi!". This is my maiden day of blogging and am quite gobsmacked so I've already put a link to your blog from mine so I can come back and read some more.

Brilliant discussions. I'm glad that some people in the world are discussing intelligently - and listening.

JM said...

I find your point of view pretty much in line with my own and I look forward to reading your posts. As a fellow Garden State resident, I find many people here with a liberal orientation, but I run across plenty of those with right wing positions. If I were going to generalize (which I won't) many times those on the right tend to be less tolerant and more judgmental, not that there's any shortage of those on the left who do the same. I had a similar experience to yours happen today; I linked to today's Krugman column about the decline of the middle class and the politics of greed. I received a response from a guy telling me that this was a wrong headed point of view, and that he remembered things differently and that the period Krugman remembered fondly was a time that he was "ashamed to be an American" but now that the American military is feared throughout the world, he is proud again. Scary stuff.

JM said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
JM said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
JM said...

Sorry about double posting; Blogger is pretty sucky 2nite!

Finn said...

I've got to tell you, I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the "if you're not with us, you're against us" bullshit from the far end of both wings.

I am, in my heart, a liberal, but I tend to skew toward being a Libertarian rather than a Dem.

The thing that really makes me nuts is all the hypocracy out there being perpetrated by those who claim to be loving and spiritual. It makes me sick.

I respect people like warcrygirl who understand that personal beliefs and values are just that - personal.

We can find compromise and ways to live and let live.

PresentStorm said...

The way I look at it is this ..I have my religious beliefs and share them with those that ask ..I do not hide what I am about or what I believe ..but on the other hand,from what I have read and know in my own heart to be true is that noone should judge anyone elses beliefs ..If it is wrong in God's eyes then he will deal with them in his own time ..I do believe he is all about being kind to people ..especially ones you are not comfortable doing so with ..I think we all should love mankind regardless ..We are all God's children ..We didn't all choose the same path but that is what makes the world what it is ..Life would be pretty boring with a bunch of me's running around ..lol Anyway that is just how lil ol me sees it ...

Guppyman said...

Ok... so what is the question here....?

Are we looking at issues specifically, or general attitudes?
Are we wanting to debate gay marriage or religious freedoms?
Are we wanting to talk about the haters on either side of the aisle?
Just curious... The comments here have gone all over the board.

Loz said...

all of this stuff you have mentioned is a large part of why i'm now an atheist even though i was raised a Catholic. It's mind boggling to me that 'the church' thinks it's their right to hate people (eg. homosexuals) when they claim that God is loving and forgiving, etc.
What sealed the deal for me was a scripture teacher at school who told me my parents would be going to hell because they were divorced. Organised religion just messes with people.

Jean-Luc Picard said...

Jersey, you write some excellent features. I am more a Bush supporter, yet here in England, both wings are very intolerant and have narrow fields of vision. I try to see both points of view. It's a pity more can't do that.

TrueJerseyGirl said...

Thanks to everyone who commented thus far. And thanks for keeping it topic-centered and not hating on one another. And Kate, sorry to be serious on a Friday - but I am a stay at home mom! Every day is a weekday to me!

Guppyman, I was basically asking for general opinions (wherever that may take you) on whether you right-wing folks agree with the types of comments that were on that site, which to me seem filled with hate and ignorance. And, if you think your party has been hijacked by those who espouse those kinds of statements. As I mentioned (and you already know), I am a liberal. But I read some oputrageous comments that left-wingers make sometimes, it embarrasses me that they are speaking for "me". I am wondering if you feel the same way. Do those kinds of comments support your beliefs or do they betray them? BTW, your wife gave just the type of comment I had hoped to get. Thanks, PresentStorm!

W. S. Cross said...

Balanced discussion of politics in America is no longer possible. Both sides have sharpened their knives, and the extremists are the ones who get our attention.

Liza said...

WOOOO!!!! I agree with your post 100%. I'm neither Republican or Democrat for the main reason that I don't think I should have to define the way I think and feel on certain issues into one or the other. That doesn't mean I'm for the third party, etc. This means I'm Lizaterian. I'm a Christian, but I don't believe the same way as most Christians and I often find that the people I'd defending my beliefs to are other Christians. It can be very frustrating. But I'm really glad that you posted that because it's great to see someone else out there who feels the same way I do.

Oh yeah, bloghopped in from Peanutt's blog :)

J&J'sMom said...

SEEE!! This is why I consider myself a Liberal Conservative, because in a nutshell every one of those comments pissed me off!!! It's against human rights all together! There just can't be extreme's here and why do we all have to fit into some little preformed box. I don't believe in abortion and would never councel anyone to do so, however, it's not my body nor is it my choice. I believe in God, but I also believe in Sprituality, hands on healing, intuitives, Angels, Ghosties, and Spirit Guides. All of which are "the devil's work" according to the bible. I believe that if two women or two men want to live together as partners for the rest of their lives, raise children, whatever..so be it, however, to me "Marriage" is between a woman and a man. So where does that leave me? It's something I've struggled with since high school. I don't really fit in any one political party. I never understood how we could start a war on the basis of a technicality, GW pretty much has said "God told me to do it" and no one questioned that????? And I'm embarrassed to say I voted for him simply because I thought he was the lesser of two evils. I think all races and religions should be recognized in school but not to the point of exclusion. If you want to pull your own kid out of school for any of those reasons, great but not celebrating Nationally recognized events to keep one child from feeling left out...not cool. Can we not have a moment of silence in schools for meditative purposes? Who says you have to say a prayer? I agree...why do we have to make such a big deal about all of these things when we have homeless people wandering the streets, children who are starving because of neglect or abuse or poverty? Women who are being beaten into submission, are in verbally abusive relationships.. obesity, rape, murder...all right here in our own country. And what is the government doing about that?

Oye..thanks for that...hope it made sense..went off it to Tangentland all to say "I agree."

Natsthename said...

Right wing nut jobs like to think they are right about everything. That pisses me off to NO END.

annie said...

I do think that most religions and political parties have been hi-jacked, including "mine".
I like to think of myself as more of a "free-thinker" and not in the true sense, i.e. "anti-Christian", but I have a brain to think things through on my own. I will probably never fully subscribe to the doctrine "my" religion or political party dictates.
It's amazing how many intelligent and powerful people are just puppets repeating narrow-minded rhetoric. And it's amazing how many fools will listen, and agree.

Dawn said...

I agree with what your saying. . I'm neither right nor left. . I have some very conservative views and some not so. . .wow interesting comment I came up with huh?

Retro Girl said...

I grew up in a house full of Democrats. When I got out on my own, I became an Independent {no pun intended!}. In this last election, I registered as a Republican and voted for George Bush. People who know me or read my blog are often very suprised that I would vote in the direction I did and the funny thing is that I'm friends with more dems than republicans; possibly because I see and can relate to where they're coming from; I understand their views because I grew up with them. All in all though, I'm still probably more of an Independent than anything, however, my views are less than mainstream liberal.

I think I'm a mixed bag!

Rik said...

No, thank you for the post. I'll have to agree with W.S. Cross and (i can't believe i'm saying this) Michael Moore (douche) but the media is partly to blame. Only the totally fascinating and often flammatory stories get any play in the news. We never hear about the good thing Americans are doing. (Republicans OR Democrats) The American public seems to have a voracious appetite for the vile and offensive. It's a sad commentary. It's no wonder the rest of the world has such distain for us.

Guppyman said...

OK... I finally got some time and went and checked out the website you started all this with. Yippee... somebody thew together some extremist comments and tried to label an entire political party by those comments... It could easily be done on either side.

Extremists exist. I don't define myself by their statements any more than I would by Michael Moore's statements.

The extremists do not have control of the party (regardless of what the other side may want you to believe).

You brought up the comments about gays- I'll throw out my 2 cents here about that. I could personally care less what people do with their love/sex life. But that's really not where the argument gets started. Go do your thing... I'll do mine... But then you have folks wanting to change the rules- gay marriage- this is where the problems break out.

I think they are shooting for the wrong thing really.... There are many people who look at marriage as a religious institution that is under attack. (I'll include myself in this many). You will get a backlash from folks who see themselves under attack. Go for the civil union thing and you might have a chance.

I have so much more to say and I have typed and erased many paragraphs over and over again.... Not sure how deep I want to go here... so I'll go ahead and close this right here.

Mainline Mom said...

I am a right wing conservative Christian and I think the liberals are just as judgemental of us as we can be of them. To judge is human, not right, but common. I think Christians have a right to their beliefs, as do other religions, but they also have a right to believe theirs is the only correct one. We should have freedom of religion but not freedom from religion. I think Christians have the right to use the political process to their advantage just as any other people group does. I don't hate homosexuals at all, but I do want my kid to know right from wrong and I fear that the message he will get is that homosexuality is right. But I also fear that he will think any sex outside of marriage is right. I will just have to do my job to teach him to love people while understanding Biblical values. It's easy to make a website like that with soundbites taken out of context at when people aren't choosing their words carefully. I could do the same thing with liberal quotes. I am a smart independant woman but I understand the thought behind that woman senator's quote. I agreed with some of those quotes but not all, and the way they were grouped it makes all the smart people seem just as extreme as the wackos.

supplymadam said...

I myself always voted democratic but as I get older I hold more conservative values. There are extremes on both sides I agree. But that Howard Dean has got to stop spreading the hate. He claims that repucblicans are a white Christian party. Yes predominatley it is but he makes it sound like such an awful thing.82% of republicans are white Christian and 57% of Democrats are. That makes up 2/3 of this country.
Also alot of these issues seem to only be coming up since GW has been in office. I honestly don't think if Al Gore were president alot of these groups wouldn't be pushing for gay marriage and mixing church and state.(myself I could care less)but it just seems like another ploy of near-hysterical ideology of Christianizing America. Believe me we have the same freedoms we've had since the Clinton years. I don't even care about the blow job. But you can believe if that happened to GW it would be a media frenzy! I am can be swayed either way , but I find nothing wrong with having a country based on some kind of morals.It never did us any harm growing up.We are lucky to be living in this country no matter who is the president. This hatred for America around the world also has been going on for decades not just the past 5 years.

supplymadam said...

I forgot to thank you for letting us express ourselves on your bolg!

honestyrain said...

a woman who makes such comments is frightening to me. she may certainly prefer to have a man care for her, may prefer not to vote. that is her right as a woman living in a society wherein she is free to choose. but to suggest that we take a giant leap back in time to when women did not have choice is a truly disturbing concept. her seemingly idylic version of man caring for owmen who do not vote leaves out the other rights women did not have such as a right to not be beaten and a right to a life outside of the home and a right to be acknowledged for the work that she does both in and out of the home.

i am not interested in knowing the woman who has these thoughts although i allow that she has the right to them.

i am only glad she has no power and will not bring about the changes she so desires.

Night Flier said...

Jersey Girl...love your blog! I am from across the bridge in Philly, however, moved to TN 1 year ago and let me tell you...Left-Wing Liberals DO exist down here, I had to look far and wide, but I found a few :-)

90% of those around me here though drive around with a "W" sticker on their cars from the last election...Anyway, nice to read and remember there are other women like me out there!! :-)

Hillary in 2008!!

Anonymous said...

Oh yeah there's a role model for an already on the way to degenerate society. Abortions for all kids! Hope she doesn't follow in her husband's footsteps having the biggest tax hike in the history of this nation. Not ready to go down that path again. This country will be taken over by terrorists for sure(look around).
I hope she keeps her sex life out of the White House. I don't think she is qualified for that office. She'd be nothing without her husband.(talk about a step bakwards) Another one that has nothing to say! Guliani in 2008!

Kathleen said...

Nice to find another left-wing, Liberal Feminist around. I'm also a practicing Catholic, but believe that it's not up to us to judge people (outside of the obvious - murder, rape, etc.), but that's God's purview.

I just had a discussion with an older man at church yesterday about same-sex marriage. He didn't agree with it, but then I told him that God made us all - homosexuals and heterosexuals alike - and why can't they express their love like everybody else - and that it's up to God to judge their actions. He thought about it a bit and then said that he'd have to think more about it.